MORIEL MINISTRIES
The
following are communications between an unknown author writing "on behalf
of Carol Champion" to whom a mail out of the papers called "CERTAIN
MEN" and "IDOLATRY" were emailed: The most obvious to be noted
by the following, is that this "unknown writer" chooses to be
critical of the material of Straight Talk Ministries,.......without first
investigating the claims made in the papers on the links so named and as
well,............GOES TO GREAT LENGTHS TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS NOT DISCLOSING FULLY, (only signing off as David), WHO HE IS, OR WHERE THEY ARE FROM???????
From: morielcarol@gmail.com
[mailto:morielcarol@gmail.com]
On Behalf Of Carol Champion
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 9:04 AM
To: bevan.kluver@bigpond.com
Subject: Re: Papers
This
statement this man got all upset about is weird, the person, while I do not
know him, whether he is a false teacher or what, says (again according what the
writer of the article sent) "We
have decided that teaching the Gospel without demonstrating the Gospel
is not enough:"Well Jesus taught or demonstrated the Gospel
while teaching the Gospel.
I am not defending this teacher this man is upset about but it seems this
person who sent this statement has misread or misunderstood what he is saying.
If he is going to send stuff out about someone he ought to find statements that
are wrong. I think like Jesus who used His miracles, healing, etc to be a basis
for His message; in other words, He demonstrated the gospel, while teaching the
Gospel.
This teacher whether false or whatever is not saying anything wrong. His misuse
of what Paul is talking about in Philippians about our past, (the Greek means
to make of no importance, in other words, not something that at affects me
adversely. it does not mean to just put out of our minds, to forget. This would
be some impossible task. Only God has the power to willfully
forget (our sins as they are put behind His back, at the bottom of the sea,
never to be seen again).
Please send this to him. Tell him to remove our names if this is the type of
interpretation he is going to do and learn to read carefully and in context
before he speaks. God has told us to be quick to hear, and slow to speak.
Again, I do not know if this man is a false teacher that is being written
about. But this is bad interpretation of what he is saying, although I only
have the snippets the writer of this email has sent us for our information.
In Peace,
David
Here is our
reply:
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Bevan Kluver <bevan.kluver@bigpond.com> wrote:
IS GRAHMAN COOKES "BUSINESS" ACTIVITIES, CHARGING,....."MONEY" FOR SUPPOSEDLY PREACHING AND TEACHING,..."THE WORD",........... AND "MERCHANDISING, SELLING "DEMONSTRATING" TO ONE AND ALL THAT THIS IS WALKING ACCORDING TO HOLY WRIT, THE TRUTH, THE GOSPEL??????? "DEMONSTRATING" THAT HE IS TOTALLY OBEDIENT TO JESUS THE CHRIST, HO LOGOS, THE WORD OF GOD??????????...........WHICH IT ISN`T AS WAS DEMONSTRATED IN THE PAPER WITH THE APROPRIATE SCRIPTURES REFERENCES:..... MY BIBLE SAYS THAT A BISHOP MUST BE,............"BLAMELESS": 1 TIM. 3/2, TIT. 1/7.
"MISUSE OF WHAT PAUL IS TALKING ABOUT IN PHILIPPIANS ABOUT OUR PAST"? QUOTE UNQUOTE: THE GREEK WORD HERE FOR "FORGETTING" IS EPILANTHANO,.....AND MEANS EXACTLY THAT,.............TO LIE HIDDEN, TO FORGET, NOT TO REMEMBER, TO FORGET AND THEREFORE TO NEGLECT:
"FORGET",.......TO CEASE OR FAIL TO REMEMBER: MACQUARIE DICTIONARY: JUST WHAT PART OF FORGET DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
"IT DOES NOT MEAN TO JUST PUT OUT OF OUR MINDS, TO FORGET. THIS WOULD BE SOME IMPOSSIBLE TASK. ONLY GOD HAS THE POWER TO WILLFULLY FORGET". QUOTE UNQUOTE:..................NOT IF WE ARE "PUTTING OFF THE OLD MAN AND BEING RENEWED IN THE SPIRIT OF OUR MINDS, AND PUTTING ON THE NEW MAN: EPH. 4/22-24
I see that this reply is signed David and it is from morielcarol@yahoo.com : I don`t suppose that this is the same David Prasch of Moriel Ministries,......the same David Prasch who angrily tore strips of Sam Corneloup of Street Church in Adelaide a few months ago, tried to make a fool of him,.........IN FRONT OF HIS WHOLE CONGREGATION, MATH. 18/6-7, MK. 9/42, LUKE 17/1-2...SAM WHO WAS AT THAT MEETING WITH HIS WHOLE CONGREGATION BECAUSE HE WRONGLY DEDUCED THAT DAVID PRASCH OF MORIEL MINISTRIES WAS A TRUE MAN OF GOD? WHICH HIS OUTBURST PROVED THAT HE WASN`T: THIS SAME DAVID PRASCH COULD NOT EVEN BE OBEDIENT TO HOLY WRIT, IT IS WRITTEN IN THIS INSTANCE,....HE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN SAM ASIDE PRIVATELY AND SPOKEN TO HIM (MATH. 18/15) IF SAM HAD OFFENDED IN ANY WAY FIRST,........AND NOT BELITTLED HIM IN FRONT OF THE VERY FOLK THAT LOVING FATHER SON AND HOLY GHOST HAS GIVEN HIM OVERSIGHT FOR.
IF IT IS,..........THEN SOMEONE NEEDS TO
REPENT: MATH. 5/22-24.
Bevan Kluver STM.
Then
we received the following communication which we have critiqued with our answer
in red larger print:
To
Carol Champion and whoever???
From: morielcarol@gmail.com [mailto:morielcarol@gmail.com]
On Behalf Of Carol Champion
Sent: Friday, 5 November 2010 5:58 AM
To: Bevan Kluver
Subject: Re: Papers
Dear Carol: Please forward this
without my email and last name (whoever this is, the fact
that they wish to remain hidden, in the dark says it all doesn`t it? John
3/19-20, 1 John 1/7) and ask him to remove us from future mailings (No Problem) unless
requested. He can have the last word, I could use a laugh. Sad though.
Notice Carol, he does not answer the first question on how he misread the
statement that he forwarded to us on which we made our judgment on how
he miswrote? Notice he didn't defend his position, but just further attacked
this man, which I neither know anything about nor had information to do so. He
now calls this man in a backhand way and "elder" by using 1 Tim. 3
and Titus 1:7 but if he knew the Scriptures we are instructed not to accept the
accusations of one against an elder. (This,...pretender is
pretending to be an Elder therefore he must stand to account of the judgment of
"blameless". The very fact that he is conducting business is, by his
example to one and all DEMONSTRATING HYPOCRISY AND HERESY TO WHICH HE ASCRIBES
IN HIS CORE BELIEFS NOT TO DO BY MAKING THE STATEMENT OF GENERALLY GIVING THE
IMPRESSION THAT HE DEMONSTRATES OBEDIENCE TO THE GOSPEL COMPLETELY: A true man
of God does not chase money, conduct business, serve mammon, which, if you were
to check out the links I put on the paper you would be able to see for
yourself: A true man of God goes forth "SEEKING FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD
AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.........KNOWING ALL THESE THINGS SHALL BE ADDED UNTO HIM
AND TAKES NO THOUGHT FOR TOMORROW, AND DOES NOT SERVE MAMMON": MATH.
6/19-34.
So, he then picks apart a
single word to build a case on "forgetting -EPILANTHANO"
as if that is how we interpret the word of God, use a dictonary.
No, we build line upon line, precept upon precept, in other words context, not
pretext. (I shall take part of this criticism
seeing as how I did not make it clear in the paper, [which I have now
rectified], that in honouring the past, [AS WAS STATED BY THIS MAN AGAIN
REFERENCED BY THE LINK IN THE PAPER, THAT HE/THEY "HONOUR THE
PAST"], there is a danger of past memories becoming
Idolatrous,.....WHICH IF YOU HAD OF READ,...........IN CONTEXT,.......YOU MAY
HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE AND UNDERSTAND: AND,....IF YOU HAD OF READ THE
ACCOMPANYING PAPER,...IDOLATRY,...YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN BY THE NAME OF THE
CONFERENCES THAT GRAHAM COOKE IS HOLDING,........"KINGDOM
DREAMING",....THAT HE REALLY IS PUTTING HIS STAMP OF APPROVAL ON VISIONING,
IMAGINING,....IDOLARTY IN HIS,......."DEMONSTRATION"......... OF THE
GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST.).
So, here is how this passage and the meaning of the word "forgettign" (CAN`T SPELL EITHER) should be Forgetting those things which are behind - There is an allusion here without a doubt to the Grecian races (since it part of the theme of the chapter). Of someone running to secure the prize where he would not stop to look behind him to see how how far along he is, or who of his competitors had fallen or lingered. He would keep his eye steadily on the prize, and strain every nerve that he might obtain it. He doesn't want his attention diverted for a second as it would hinder his race and he might lose the crown. He looked forward to the prize. This was the single object in his view, and he did not allow his mind to be diverted from that goal by anything - not even by the contemplation of the past. He did not stop to think of the difficulties which he had overcome, or the troubles which he had met, but he thought of what was yet to be accomplished.
Now this does not mean that he would not have regarded a proper contemplation of his past life as useful and profitable for a Christian. In Ephesians 2 11-12, Paul tells us to remember things concerning the past in a right way. Yet in Philippians 3 here he is stating that he would not allow any reference to the past to interfere with the one great effort to win the prize. Yet, it is profitable for a Christian to look over the past mercies of God, to examine himself (Lam. 3:40; [THIS IS CONTEMPLATION OF THE NOW,...NOT THE PAST, AS IS HAG. 1/7.]; 1 Cor. 11:8 [ "FOR THE MAN IS NOT OF THE WOMAN; BUT THE WOMAN OF THE MAN"???????????? MISQUOTED I BELIEVE?] and more), in order to stir our emotions of gratitude in our heart, and to think of ones shortcomings and errors, to produce repentance and humility. But none of these things should be allowed for one moment to divert the mind from the purpose to win the incorruptible crown. And it could be generally stated, that a Christian will make more rapid advances in our religious devotion towards being conformed into the image of God by looking forward than by looking backward. Forward we see everything to cheer us on and move us; we see the crown of victory, the joys of heaven, and the Savior (SPELLING AGAIN) calling us on, heavenly upward.
Also, I think we received one other email from Bevan and in it he quoted Paul late in his life reminding everyone of things he did, suffered, etc.(so I guess Paul didn't forget). So, how does Bevan reconcile Paul telling us to forget as Bevan says in one of his definitions, "fail to remember." (BE SPECIFIC, NOT PRESUMPTUOUS, [PS. 19/13, 2 PET. 2/10] NOT SOME STATEMENT WHERE YOU THINK I MIGHT HAVE, MAYBE, COULD HAVE, "I THINK I DO RECALL",...... BE SPECIFIC, QUOTE THE NAME OF THE PAPER AND GIVE A REFERENCE POINT IN THE PAPER:).
Bevan has made a mistake on his exegesis of this passage to attack this man,
(whether he is a false teacher or not I have not examined the evidence yet [YES THAT IS RIGHT,...YOU SHOULD HAVE
SEARCHED THE LINKS I PUT ON THE PAPER BEFORE YOU OFF HANDEDLY
DECIDED TO JUMP TO CONVENIENT CONCLUSIONS ABOUT STRAIGHT TALK MINISTRIES]) because Bevan's zeal is against false teachers,
but he has certainly done it not using The Truth of His Word correctly. Bevan
made (AGAIN,....CAN`T SPELL) be against false teachers, but from what he
wrote, he does not seem to be for correct usage of The Word. He is unskilled in
the use of The Sword. (I have attached our Charter and Mission
Statement for you to ponder before you go soiling your nappy again thinking we
are unskilled in "The Word". Math. 12/31-32, Mk. 3/28).
I pray he grows in his understanding of the Word, the body of Christ could always use people with zeal, but we need those with zeal to have correct knowledge and use it wisely and righteously. (AMEN)
Also, I wonder why we some how got included in his
e-mailings and never asked to be included? (WAS ELIJAH INVITED TO PREACH TO THE
CHILDREN OF ISRAEL ON MT CARMEL?...WAS JOHN THE BAPTIST SOLICITED TO PREACH
REPENTANCE TO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, CALLING THE PHARISEES A BUNCH OF
SNAKES?....WAS CHRIST GIVEN A GOLD EMBOSSED INVITATION TO PREACH REPENTANCE TO
THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL WARNING THEM TO FLEE THE WRATH THAT IS TO COME?)
Bevan does not seem to understand
that proverbs tells people getting involved in another man's fight is like
grabbing a dog's ear, so stay clear. (PRO. 26/17, NOW,.... WHO`S EXEGESIS IS AWRY?..WAYWARD?......PERVERSE?).
Then to end his letter, he makes a guess as to who I am, attacks wildly
(again confirming his bad handling of The Sword) another man, and assumes this
is who he is talking too. (My apologies for this, I realise now that
it wasn`t DAVID,........Prasch,.... but JACOB PRASCH
WHO ABUSED A TRUE MAN OF GOD IN FRONT OF HIS CONGREGATION IN ADELAIDE EARLIER
THIS YEAR, PERHAPS IF THE WRITER OF THIS HAD THE STARCH TO REVEAL HIMSELF,... (OR
MAYBE IT IS HERSELF CAROL?),............AND WASN`T SUCH A COWARD,....THEN THIS
ERROR WOULD NOT HAVE OCCURED.).
As
previously stated, if you had of taken the time to check out the links on the
paper FIRST,.... you MIGHT,.......have discerned that the man in
question is a hireling, an imposter which the flock needs to be warned about:
Instead you responded ill informed. Just one fact alone makes him a fake, and
we need not look any further,........HE CONDUCTS BUSINESS, CHASES MONEY AND
SCHOOLS OTHERS TO RUN FELLOWSHIPS THE SAME:
Really,
your whole response is just an advertisement of pride, rebellion and rejection
of "THE WORD OF THE LORD". YOU COULD NOT EVEN DISCERN PROPHETIC
UTTERENCE WHEN DELIVERED TO YOU,.............HOW DULL ARE YOU OF HEARING:
THUS
SAITH THE LORD GOD:
"WE
ARE OF GOD: HE THAT KNOWETH GOD HEARETH US; HE THAT IS NOT OF GOD HEARETH NOT
US. HEREBY KNOW WE THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, AND THE SPIRIT OF ERROR". 1 JOHN
4/6. "HE THAT IS OF GOD HEARETH GOD`S WORDS": JOHN 8/47.
You
can keep your warm, cosy, untested, untried theology, (Rev. 3/14-22), as for me
and mine,.......we shall stick to being "in that place of hearing",
"Holy Communication", where we "hear the voice of The Good
Shepherd",........and demonstrate our love for HIM by our obedience
amen: "THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH". "WITHOUT FAITH
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM". "FAITH COMES BY HEARING, AND HEARING
BY THE WORD OF GOD". "WHATSOEVER IS NOT OF FAITH IS SIN".
In Peace,
David
When and if we receive any more replies to
the above, we shall post them on the website:
Bevan Kluver STM.